C. Amanpour: Mr. Kyriakos Mitsotakis, and he is joining me from Athens. Prime Minister, welcome to the program. I just want to ask you, because your country, I believe, has in the region of 1,300 cases, some 49 or 50 deaths, you are under lockdown, you have been for the better part of the week. What is the trend there, now?
K. Mitsotakis: Well, first of all, Christiane, thank you for having me on your show. I think, the trend is relatively encouraging compared to other European countries, but we obviously know that the hard work is still ahead of us. What we did which I think was relatively successful was to implement strict social-distancing measures relatively early, and this seems to have worked. We have had almost full co-operation by the Greek people. I’d like to thank them for the fact that they have respected our directions and have actually stayed home with very, very few exceptions. I am not an epidemiologist or an expert but it is very clear to me that if you take social-distancing measures relatively early you can actually flatten the curve. We have had 50 people tragically losing their lives in Greece from Covid-19, but our healthcare system is coping relatively well. And I should point out that this is a public healthcare care system that was battered after 10 years of austerity, so we were painfully aware of the fact that we were at bigger risk, compared to other European countries, seeing our healthcare system being overwhelmed. This has not happened up to now and we hope it is not going to happen.
C. Amanpour: Well, I mean, those are incredible statistics to be able to tell the world and it is really interesting to hear that, because, as we said and as you just said, you were one of the worst-hit countries over the last ten plus years, twelve years, since the 2008 financial crisis. Can I just quickly ask you, are you at home or are you in your office, how are you running the government at distance?
K. Mitsotakis: I am at my office with a tight team of my closest collaborators, we work out of the office and, of course, we are running the country by using video conferences and getting in touch with the people we need to talk to by using technology. And I can tell you one thing, which has struck me, is how quickly the Greek state has actually moved towards its digital future. We have implemented new platforms, new applications, people have gone online at a much faster pace. So in a sense this crisis has also been an opportunity, if I may use that term, for the Greek state to embrace the digital era at a much quicker pace. So far, we have had only one Member of Parliament who was tested positive to Covid-19. He was in hospital – he is now out of the hospital – so this at least allows us to remain in properly functioning mode.
C. Amanpour: Prime Minister, you heard the United Nations’ Secretary General call for a unified global response for solidarity and you obviously know, because you are living it, that even within a united EU, there is competition between countries, almost like a “me first, let me have whatever equipment and medicine I can get for myself, I don’t want to export it, I need it for my people”. How are you facing that and is there any move towards actually more sharing, not just of the burden, but of the life-saving equipment?
K. Mitsotakis: Well, as you know, Christiane, there is a global competition for personal protective equipment, for ventilators, for ICU beds and every country, at least in the short term, is on its own in this effort. I do need to point out, however, that the European Commission has attempted to put in place a framework for common procurement of these goods, with a fair-distribution mechanism among member states. But, of course, these procedures sometimes take time and there is clear asymmetry between supply and demand, which will force us, at some point, to also reconsider our supply chains and the ability to produce some of these goods domestically, not be so dependent on imports, which can easily dry up in a crisis. So, we’ve seen clear indications of an attempt to manage this crisis at a European level, but when you are in crisis mode, it is very clear that each member state is trying to secure for its own citizens the necessary goods. And Greece has been no exception in this effort. What I think we did relatively successfully was also to mobilize the private sector, mobilize the big foundations. We’ve had lots of donations, large and small, by the private sector, by our foundations and they’ve managed to actually help us, purchase a lot of this protective equipment from abroad and I’d like to take this opportunity to thank them. Greece is perceived as a rather individualistic society, but if I retain something which has come out for good out of this crisis is the clear sense of solidarity and the belief that we are in this together. And I think we’ve also managed to be able to restore trust, trust in the state, trust in the government, and as you know trust after 10 years of economic crisis was in very short supply in Greece. So, there is a general appreciation that we are doing our job professionally. What we have also done is that we’ve given the communications lead to the experts. We have a daily briefing by experts, not by politicians, who brief people on exactly what is happening. In a sense, after a decade of populism, where we’ve heard incredible things being articulated in the public discourse, it is very comforting that right now the true experts, “the technocrats” that were vilified over many years, are actually guiding us in terms of policy decisions that we need to make.
C. Amanpour: Well, Prime Minister, I have to ask you, because I led you talking about some of the other leaders simply not taking the experts advice and still in denial about what’s going on. Notably, the President of Brazil, who is out there busily chatting with people, shaking hands, there’s no social-distancing, no nothing, and telling people to “take it on the chin like a man, man up”. Can you just tell me what you would say to him if you were to meet him across the G20 table?
K. Mitsotakis: First of all, I wish Greece is going to become a member of the G20 very quickly, we are not there yet, but if I were to see him, I would tell him he’s making a huge mistake. This virus spreads like wildfire and there’s one way of stopping it, and that is social-distancing and telling people the truth. I don’t know if the climate in Brazil allows us to make different assumptions, but after some point we have a responsibility and I feel I have a tremendous responsibility towards my citizens, to actually tell them the truth. It is very painful to stay at home. We all suffering the economic consequences of this lockdown, but our number one priority is to protect people’s lives. And, at some point what I cannot accept and what I’ve told our team is that we don’t want our health system to be overwhelmed, to reach the point where we have to choose who goes on a ventilator and who doesn’t. Of course, in any epidemic, some people tragically will lose their lives, but if you let this thing spread out of control and then you start imposing social-distancing measures with a significant delay I have significant doubts as whether this is going to work.
C. Amanpour: Prime Minister, about the migrant crisis, because this has hit your country very hard, you’ve had several waves of this since 2015, and now I think you’ve got in the region of nearly 40,000 on Lesvos, in this big, huge camp at Moria. There is fear of an outbreak there, what would you do to be able to contain it? There are only six ICU beds on that island. What will you do to keep people safe there?
K. Mitsotakis: Well, first of all Christiane, thank God that we haven’t had a single case of Covid-19 on the island of Lesvos nor on any other island. We only had one case at a refugee camp in the mainland. I think we’re pretty good at contact-tracing. You can actually do contact-tracing at the very beginning of an outbreak. So, we’re keeping a very close eye on what’s happening in Lesvos. You are right to point out that we’re faced with a complicated situation. Our plan has always been to make sure that we gradually alleviate the pressure, when it comes to Lesvos and the other islands. But of course the refugee and the migration problem is much more complicated. It is very much related to what happened over the past month. In the beginning of last month we had a very clear attempt by Turkey to use desperate people, refugees and migrants, and push them into Greece in a clear attempt to blackmail the European Union. This didn’t work. Greece protected its borders. And we’ll continue to protect our borders. But at the same time, I think we have a very good track record, Christiane, of dealing with this problem in a very humane manner. And we’ll continue to do so, and, of course, keep a very close eye on what’s happening in our camps. We have access also to European support. We are ramping-up medical facilities. But because the islands are relatively self-confined and relatively isolated communities, it is very, very regulated who goes and who leaves the islands, in general. So, we certainly want to protect these areas of Greece where we have not had a single outbreak of the virus yet. And, thank God, the islands so far are in that category.
C. Amanpour: Well, Prime Minister, you know perfectly well that there’s been criticism of the Greek government’s treatment of some of these migrants and refugees on these islands and in Greece. Basically, Human Rights Watch is saying that your Authorities are arbitrarily detaining about 2,000 migrants and asylum-seekers. And, beyond that, the conditions in some of these camps are, I quote, “appalling and unsanitary”. There just aren’t enough toilets, there isn’t enough water, you know, facilities for people to even wash their hands, or even to maintain social-distancing. So, first and foremost, what about these arbitrary detentions of about 2,000 migrants? Because it certainly goes against World Health Organisation and international regulations in these situations.
K. Mitsotakis: Well, we were very clear, Christiane. We suspended asylum applications for one month, in the beginning of March. This suspension expired today. So, we made it very clear that it was a temporary measure to deal with an extraordinary and pre-meditated event. I just want to remind you and your viewers exactly what happened in the beginning of March, when the Turkish government consciously and very systematically not just encouraged but gave people the means to actually try to cross massively, illegally, into Greece. And it is my duty, and I made that very clear, to protect my borders. And this is exactly what I did. Greece or the European Union are not going to be blackmailed by Turkey, when it comes to this issue. So, we made it very clear that this was a temporary measure. It has expired today, so I expect a full return to normality, when it comes to asylum applications. We have changed our asylum regulation. We want to streamline the asylum application and make it much quicker. And the people who are granted asylum have a full right, if they choose to do so, to remain in Greece and we will welcome them. The people who are not offered international protection should be returned to Turkey or their countries of origin. As you know very well, there is an agreement between the European Union and Turkey, a Statement that was put in place in 2016. This Statement was violated by Turkey a month ago. We seem to be returning to a normality when it comes to flows across the Aegean. And I would hope that we return to this Statement, because it does serve as a basis of common understanding in addressing this problem. Now, regarding the conditions you mentioned, yes, the conditions are far from being ideal, but I should also point out that Greece is dealing with this problem basically on its own. We happen to be a border state in the European Union. We haven’t gotten as much support from the European Union as we want. The environment today for any sort of relocations, unfortunately, in Europe is not conducive. So, we are also bearing a very big weight, when it comes to managing this problem. We are trying to do it in the best possible way, in the most humane possible way. And I do expect that if the flows across the Aegean are actually reduced, as seems to be the case, that gradually the situation on the islands, and in particular in Moria, is going to get normalised.
C. Amanpour: All right. Prime Minister Mitsotakis thank you so much indeed for joining us from Athens tonight. We wish you and your people luck with this terrible illness. Thank you very much for joining us.
